Paiste Dixie can be considered the forerunner of the 404 line.
So it's a beginners line which is however made from B8. Some Dixies are made from cheaper alloy, but most are B8. You can easily recognize this by the colour.
Most of them are thin to very thin.
The sound can be compared to the 404's. A thin and "simple", uni-directional sound.
They are not worth much money and don't have a vintage value.
ZitatKann mich der Paiste-Friktion-Fraktion nicht anschließen: Mir ist ist 26 Jahren erst eins in die Wicken gegangen, und zwar ein 8er Splash 2002, welches 23 Jahre auf dem Buckel hatte.
2002 is B8 alloy, not B15. When these break, they break in normal ways. You can always find the cause for the crack. Not with B15 (Paiste Alloy).
ZitatOriginal von Burning
You are definately scaring me....
Think I'd have to take a closer look at my Sound Formula Full Ride today...
Don't worry, it's not that 50 % of the Sigs wil break. We are talking about a minority that breaks. But the minority of breaking Sigs is just a bit bigger than the minority of other cymbals that break.
You would have heard a sizzle if your cymbal had a crack.
Of course many people are happy with Paiste Signatures. They are great cymbals and the alloy is sonically very rich.
But I only tell you what I have seen. Being a cymbalsmith many people come to me with broken cymbals. I've had more people with broken Paiste Signatures and Sound Formulas than cymbals made from other alloys.
Also people working in music-shops told me that Paiste Sigs are the cymbals most often returned with cracks.
Most of the cracked Sigs I've seen were actually heavy ones played by drummers with a soft touch. They often break in an illogical manner. With most cracked cymbals you can find the reason why it cracked. But Paiste B15 alloy often cracks in mysterious ways.
Check also this post on Cymbalholic.
ZitatOriginal von Philippe
drumsandbeats und newbeat hatten recht: 20" K Cons Light Ride.
Besonders interessant wären teure high end Becken, die wie Rotz klingen oder vermeintliche Einsteigercymbals, die doch deutlich mehr können, als der Preis vermuten lassen würde..
The prices of these K Cons really cannot be justified. They are fully computer-controlled machine-hammered cymbals, just like all other modern Zildjian cymbals. They just look like they are very much hand-hammered. Now if they would really sound like old Turkish K's the price would be somewhat acceptable but many K Cons sound stiff, cold and one-directional. Several drummers have sent me K Cons to hammer into a richer sound. I'm rehammering two K Cons at this moment, a 20" for an Austrian drummer and a 22" for a drummer from Paris. These cymbals didn't sound any warmer or more complex than regular K Zildjians. The 20" K Con Medium sounded more like an Avedis actually.
You can get two Turkish really hand-hammered ride cymbals for the price of one K Con ride.
Of course "Turkish" doesn't automatically mean a warm, musical and complex sound. It's not because a cymbal is hammered by hand that it will sound good. The problem with Turkish cymbals nowadays is that the demand is so big that the companies have to engage unexperienced people to hammer the cymbals.
These people get a basic training how to SHAPE a cymbal by hand-hammering. But fine-hammering towards a certain musical sound is much more difficult and requires much more experience. Each Turkish company has a couple of experienced "mastersmiths" who can do this, but they don't have enough time to make adjustments to all roughly shaped cymbals. So there's a huge quality-difference in Turkish cymbals. Some are VERY beautiful, others - though the same model - sound dreadful. So you can't just buy Turkish cymbals blindly, you really have to look around for the good ones.
ZitatOriginal von dwdrums
weil ich eigentlich nicht so der powerdrummer bin, und es mehr oder weniger von einem schlag zum andren kaputt gegangen ist.
Außerdem was mich noch mehr wunderte, spiel ich auch noch en 20"er crash von der line serie. und es ist mitten drin, also mitten im becken inneren ein 3cm langer riss!
Ist das ein Zufall, oder gabs das schon bei mehreren?
No it's not coincidence and you are not the only one. These cymbals often break totally unexpected, even when played by careful drummers.
Remarkably many drummers come to me with cracked Paiste Sigs and ask me to cut them cut down and rehammer them into smaller cymbals.
Paiste Signature, Paiste Traditionals and Paiste Sound Formula are made from the so called "Paiste alloy" which is really a B15 alloy. It is the softest "professional" bronze I have ever hammered. It's equally soft as brass. In my opinion as a cymbalsmith, it is too soft.
This bronze has great acoustic properties, but it still has children's diseases.
Forgot to say, I also turn cymbals with edge-cracks into smaller cymbals.
I first cut them down and then I rehammer them completely.
It's even possible to make a different type of cymbal with a cut down cymbal. A crash can be turned into a china or into another totally crazy and even new kind of effect-cymbal.
ZitatOriginal von Rockstar
Meine Cymbals sind gerade auf den Weg zu ihm.
Perhaps I'll post the "before and after" soundfiles of Adrian's cymbals here for all of you to listen to.
ZitatI thought the main tone characteristics were linked to the material (b20 warm ...down to with b8 kind of aggressive, loud and cold)? I've read that on the meinl homepage
Meinl is right about B20 and B8. But the big companies don't take the time to really hammer their cymbals intensively.
If bronze is hammered really intensively and strategically it can sound SO much warmer than we are used to hear. Even B8. It only takes a LOT of hammer work to get all the sound potential out.
That's why I started doing this. I always felt that many cymbals were missing a certain dimension. Even expensive B20 cymbals can sound so much better. Actually I'm now rehammering a very expensive Zildjian K Constantinople ride for a drummer from Austria. It will sound MUCH warmer, deeper and richer after I'm done.
There are a couple of B8 cymbals on my site that i rehammered into warm and dark sounding cymbals. Like some Paiste 2002's, Paiste Dimensions, a Paiste 3000 and a cheap Zildjian ZBT 20' ride. Just listen to them now, you will not recognize the typically high pitched cold B8 sound anymore.
Thanks. No there's no instruction guide. I've been hammering cymbals for many years. I learned to do it myself.
Hello again !
Many amateur cymbals have hidden talents. Often they can be hammered into really professional cymbals.
Let"s take this cheap Headliner 16" Crash. A very sharp and cold sounding cymbal. I decided to hammer this cymbal into a dark trashy jazzy crash cymbal.
This is the sound before and after I hammered it:
http://users.telenet.be/cymbzd…nd_after_modification.mp3
If an amateur cymbal is made from a good alloy like B8, it has much more potential than one would think...
Here you can see how it changed:
ZitatOriginal von Merrell
Willkommen! Die "Before and after modifications" sind wirklich sehr interessant! Wie hast du die Soundfiles aufgenommen (Mics, Positionierung, Raum, Equipment, etc.)?
My recordings are not professional. I make them with a cheap Realistic microphone plugged into the soundcard of my computer. There are no soundeffects added. The microphone is about 50cm away from the cymbal.
On the site there are still some older recordings that are of bad quality. I will replace them when I find the time.
Most people who come to my house to listen to the cymbals say that the real cymbals sound much better than the soundclips.
By the way, I understand German. At least if you write slowly 
.
Thanks for all your nice comments !!!
ZitatOriginal von buddler
How does this crazy Wavedisk sound like?
All the soundfiles of the cymbals are on the site, just click the mp3 files.
ZitatCan you just post pictures from your work-steps?
I will try to find some time for this sometime in the future.
Zitat[i]Original von Jörn So, I dare to say what is written on the page.It costs appr. between 50 and 90€ per cymbal-customizing.
Yes, that is for a 20- 21" cymbal.
ZitatI am really interested in the tools you are using for this work
You need a few hammers, an anvil and a lathe (a machine to make cymbals thinner). But most of all: experience.
ZitatTo me the hammering of high class cymbals seems to include a very high risk of destroying them. In other words: How many cymbals you have crashed til yet ?
I don't break cymbals any more. I only broke a few cymbals when I started.
ZitatWhat is the price for modifying - for example - a 21' ride ?
It appears to be against the rules to say that here, but check this.
Or drumcymb@yahoo.com me.
ZitatOriginal von Nuukcould you make a cymbal sounding like the ride on "a kind of blue"?
There are two rides on that album. One is a light ride with rivets, the other is a much drier one. But yes, I can make cymbals like that.
But keep in mind that the cymbalsound you hear on a cd is influenced by the way the drummer plays it and by the way the recording is made (placement and types of microphones).
Suppose you would get the chance to play the actual cymbal Jimmy Cobb used on Kind of Blue, it would sound different when you play it.
Zitatwobei ich jetzt leider sagen muss, dass ich es ganz interessant finde wenn das nicht per pm sondern hier gelöst wird
Trying to make both Nuuk and the mods happy, I suggest you check out :
this post on Cymbalholic .
But if you want to know more details, just send me a drumcymb@yahoo.com
Thanks Philippe. I started hammering cymbals many years ago because I was not happy with the cymbals I found in the shops. I wanted a very dark complex sound. The Tony Williams cymbalsound was my biggest motivation.
To me, most factory made cymbals sound a bit one-directional. They often produce only one tone and lack a certain depth. I want cymbals that have different layers of sound.
Actually I recently entered the Cymbalholic.com site, which is really THE site for cymbal lovers all over the world. Mike Skiba's work is known to me, he makes great cymbals.
Through the years, drummers came to listen and appreciate my cymbals. Now drummers and percussionists from all over the world send me cymbals to hammer.
On my webspace, you'll find this map containing "before and after modification" soundfiles. there you can hear the enormous change that cymbals can undergo when I hammer and lathe them.
I'm a cymbalsmith from Bruges, Belgium. Sorry I'm writing in English but my German is very bad...
I hammer and modify existing professional cymbals from Zildjian, Sabian, Ufip, Paiste, etc. to make the sound richer, warmer, deeper, trashier, or whatever people ask for. I work for drummers all over the world.
My main goal is to make modern cymbals sound like the legendary handmade "Old Turkish K Zildjians", played by drummers like Tony Williams and Elvin Jones.
Pictures and soundfiles of my custom cymbals can be found here.
Feel free to drumcymb@yahoo.comme for further questions. I understand German but I cannot speak or write it myself.
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